Talk:Spellbinder (3.5e Class)

Ratings

	Foxwarrior is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	I'm not entirely sure that I believe that this caster is as good as a Sorcerer: careful spell choice can help you diversify a lot, and being 1 to 3 spell levels ahead is very strong.

Spell List

Where does the spellbinder pick his spells from? You're also giving him a LOT of them. Why does he get so many of them? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 15:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Spellbinder spells "are drawn from the druid, cleric, and sorcerer spell lists", as already stated.

Spellbinders get lots of spells known on the theory that casting spontaneously from a long list of spells can be lots of fun.--Ideasmith 16:03, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I missed that.

As for large list casting, it can be fun but your approach here seems odd. There are 78 level 1 spells that you could get that meet your spell list limitations from the SRD (and 88 level 2, and 84 level 3, and so on though there is probably some level overlap in those numbers that makes them higher than they actually are), and you start with about a fifth of them. You have enough spells granted that cover such a wide range of scenarios that you appear unlikely to miss the rest and I'm not actually sure what is served by giving them a limit at all. All it looks to be doing is introducing option paralysis at both character creation and cast time. It seems like either a tighter limit on regular spells known with a daily-ish use "any spell" option as a class feature or just giving all spells from those lists would be a better way to go. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 16:38, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Your solution to “option paralysis” at cast time is to multiply the lists to chose from by two and the spells to choose from by five (or more)? With a class feature that adds complexity and clunkiness? If this be a problem, a better solution is surely available. How many options do you feel it takes to cause option paralysis anyway?

In answer to your implied question about spells known, they make one spellbinder different from the next. The spells known limits were not intended to balance the class (I did that by limiting level available progression to ‘as bard’).--Ideasmith 23:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Options paralysis sets in between 5 and 9 options, depending on person and experience. My suggestions don't remove option paralysis, they just put it in different places. I actually did not intend to add in new lists for selection, and I'm sorry that wasn't more clear. The first option, tighter spells known with an a daily use any-spell ability, places significantly less at cast time by restricting your options more. The any-spell option is more likely to be hoarded by virtue of being more limited and is likely to only come up when a specific option is already known as needed. Having an "I really wish I had X" ability is not generally a source of option paralysis as a result of this, though the potential exists. So net decrease there. The second removes option paralysis at creation entirely by giving you every spell in those 3 lists, putting it all on cast time. The premise there is that they are already working with too large a list of known spells, so a few or a lot more options is not as big a deal as making them select that big pile of options in advance. I understand both of these positions are likely contentious, but they seem more sound to me than putting option paralysis in at both ends.

As for differentiation, that is a benefit I had not considered. The large size of the spells known and the dearth of desirable spells are likely to lead to substantial overlap here though, so I don't see this as a larger area of differentiation than the bonus feats (which are not defined in the text actually) and the mystic style ability. Losing the ability to select largely the same spell list as everyone else does not strike me as a loss for diversity.

Anyway, that's my 20cp. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:48, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I find your reasoning unconvincing, and so went with reducing spells known instead.

Brought bonus feats description in from copy I had elsewhere. Don't know why it was missing from the Wiki entry.

Fair enough. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 04:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)