Talk:Apexes (3.5e Race)

Ratings

	Eiji-kun likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	A solid LA 1 with some interesting abilities and amusing padding for low-level play on the hp. Could use more flavor though.

Racial HDs?

isnt the 1 hd useless? creatures with 1 hd lose it when they take a class level. --NameViolation 19:40, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed they do. - TarkisFlux 20:33, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

So shouldn't they just be a LA +1? since the HD is there to offset power, but since it goes away its pointless. I mean that this is too awesome for a no LA race --NameViolation 18:20, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think the intent is to give them the awesome as well as a HD for a more functional LA +1 (since regular LA sucks), it's just not the way the base rules work :-(. - TarkisFlux 18:25, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

You could move some of the abilities to a racial paragon class, and make taking a level in the paragon mandatory. --IGTN 19:32, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Or give them an extra racial hit die so it becomes 2RHD. Which is a much better substitute for LA +1. --TK 10:09, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, technically the race have 2 RHD, I just didn't calculated the first because it would be replaced by a class level anyway, it seem it wasn't clear enough so I guess I should add it. --Leziad 20:17, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if you give them 2 they don't lose one to a class level. So you can have a race with 2 HD and add class levels on top of that, or you can have a race with 1 HD that loses it to gain a class level, but you can't have a race with 1 HD and class levels on top of that. Unless you want to write an exception to the rules. - TarkisFlux 20:21, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm I see, well I guess I pump their racial abilities a little to fit 2 RHD. --Leziad 20:27, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Just thought of this actually, but you could also give them 0 HD, LA +1, and just give out all of the 1HD things as "bonuses". So they get 4 bonus hit points, +1 bonuses on a bunch of skills, a +2 bonus on will saves, etc. Just don't do any of the level 1 max hp or skill multiplying stuff since they'll be getting those with level 1 in a class and you'll be fine. - TarkisFlux 20:45, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone care to touch on the net +12 to ability scores and +0LA? anyone? Skizzlefrits 20:56, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Umm, why? they have 2 racial HD meaning you lose 2 class levels to be this race. and while HD is slightly better than LA, they get 2, not 1 LA.Idkwhatmynameis 22:28, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Balance

Okay so far I got several suggestions about how to properly balance the race, so far I like Tarkis idea of giving RHD benefits and a single LA. Anyone got any thoughts? --Leziad 22:47, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

If you want to keep it in the LA +1 range, I'd tone down the +6 stat adjustments (net +4 probably) and +6 skill bonuses (+2 each I think) and change the save ability to only affect psi and psi-like abilities (and let people deal with psi/mag transparency on their own). The vision, RHD bonuses, mind over matter, and bonus PP are a substantial (if not actually sufficient) bonus for +1 LA already. - TarkisFlux 23:15, May 13, 2010 (UTC)