Talk:E20 (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

	Wildmage likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	I like it, first epic rules I see that might work, and thats becaus it cut off right before epic... hmm

	DanielDraco favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	One of my favorite rules on here. Elegant fix to epic levels, even if nonepic levels are still problematic.

Multiclass?

with this variant I'm not able to do what I often did when I was at level 20- take prestige classes. Not the sucky epic ones, mind you, but often by the time I am at level 20, Ihave a character the looks like my pirate Taylor Janorson here: Rogue 8/Scarlet Corsair 8/Thief Acrobat 4. So, how does this varient handle a guy like me who's character isn't quite maxed out in base levels?--Teh Storm 21:14, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Give the abilities as custom feats every 20k xp. You won't gain base levels any longer, but you will still gain the abilities you're missing / are looking for. - TarkisFlux 21:52, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

See, there is my issue. While I agree that 20, 15, 10 or 5, depending on the levels in the class in question, should be a cap for power, but I don't think growth in levels should stop at character level 20. Even if you are the one class fighter who stayed away from all the "munchkiny prestige crap", I think the level beyond 20 is when you should start thinking, "Well, MAYBE a level or two of wizard wouldn't hurt..."--Teh Storm 21:59, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

You seem to have a very different grasp of what level cap means than myself or Ghost do. I don't even care where you cut off a class, it could be multiples of 5 or 4 or 12 for all I care. This is about capping character power, and the only way to do that is to limit character levels. Focusing on class levels misses the point entirely and also assumes that various class levels are worth the same if you get them at different points in your career, which they are demonstrably not.

So, what about "gaining more levels" is it that you want: The save bonuses? The hit points? The base attack bonuses? The skill points? Or the abilities that the classes would grant at those levels? Ghost's big thing is RNG management, and if classes are on different progressions there's a limit to how far apart the base values can get before you start having DC value issues (read my blogs if you want more on that). All that this cuts out is the numerical portion of advancement that would be added to d20 rolls. If you want the abilities of a Scarlet Corsair 9 you make a feat called "Scarlet Corsair 9" or whatever and it gives all of the abilities a level in that class would normally give you, but without the save and BAB and hp and skills. So you can still advance your classes if you want, or go get abilities from other classes, or whatever, you just gain new options and not so much numerical power. It's slightly based on E6 in that respect.

It's designed to put an upper cap on character power before godhood or whatever sets in. And once you hit that cap, you can get new options but you don't get a higher level of power. If that's not your thing, that's fine, but your issue isn't actually an issue for the goals of this variant, since it doesn't actually care that you have more levels you could have taken in some of the classes that make up your character. - TarkisFlux 22:55, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

I follow the reasoning, but charging a full level's worth of XP for less than a level advancement's worth of bonus seems a bit harsh. Even by corebook rules, an epic level gave me +1/2 BAB, +1/2 save bonus, and a third of a feat, in addition to a level's worth of class abilities. While I grant that buying new class abilities as feats lets me skip buying the 'empty' levels, which is a partial trade-off for this, its still harshing on multiclassing and suchlike. However, the 'sideways gestalt' rules proposed elsewhere are a bit too powerful. Perhaps a compromise? 5000 or 10,000 XP? Chuckg (talk) 20:10, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

You do realize that a CR 20 monster, of which you should face 4 of each day at level 20 according to the rules, gives 6k XP to a level 20 party, right? Add on ad-hoc rewards and the like, and you're gaining new abilities (such as another die of Sneak Attack, 2 levels of casting in a class you might not belong to, or anything else you can imagine that the DM allows.

On top of that, this is homebrew. If in your specific game you feel this is too slow, you can change the rate at which abilities are gained. --Ghostwheel (talk) 22:56, 26 September 2015 (UTC)