Talk:Rise of the Great Stone Dragon (3.5e Maneuver)

Swift

Swift just seems wrong... no standard? I know its not strike in the traditional sense but 'summon a dragon' doesn't scream of a swift action to me.

The amusement of flying stone aside, what stops you from summoning 8+ dragons at a time (initiating this every other round)? I am sure I'm missing something. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, what if it were made into a stance? This more or less flies in the face of conventional ToB stuff, but it would prevent you from spamming it and still have more or less the same effect. Plus you basically have a stone dragon pet forever as long as you maintain the stance, which is cool. - TG Cid (talk) 15:31, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I can dig it. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 15:53, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I shall ponder this. I am thinking the dragon should have a lot less durability if can essentially be summon-spammed by re-assuming the stance. It can be destroyed more easily, but also reform itself. To compensate maybe it could have more abilities, although being able to use maneuvers through it gives quite a few options already even if you don't see them in the stat block. - TG Cid (talk) 16:15, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I am dumb, I had already thought of that and ninja'ed myself. Only 165 hp is plenty fragile. - TG Cid (talk) 16:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

(Edit conflict! Twice! Really?!) Though you'll need to address its hp and being able to just resummon it. May I recommend that it retains its hp persistently, and if slain the stance is unable to be used until you refresh your maneuvers (15 minutes usually, full round with feat). That lets you resummon but still have the hp mean something.

Looks like you were thinking too. If you give it any abilities, may I suggest burrow or earth glide? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking about the persistent hp thing, but it only has a small hit point pool and the dragon could probably be destroyed pretty easily by a creature of sufficient CR that it would actually be fought by the martial adept who could use the stance. It seemed reasonable to me to just force them to re-assume the stance to reform the dragon when it is destroyed, or perhaps have a penalty for the dragon being destroyed (like causing the adept to become Uncentered for 1 round to stop them from immediately reforming it or changing stances. - TG Cid (talk) 16:43, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I figure with low hp and an effectively non-cost return, it's pretty much infinite hp with the cost of all your swift actions. Which might be what you want, though I think it would be better to up the hp in exchange for a slower respawn. You can scale the hp effectively by doing a familiar and making it 1/2 your hp if higher. Or 3/4. Or full if you think that's balanced. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 16:59, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

It occurs to me that since it can assume any stance you can, it can summon a Great Stone Dragon itself. If that's unintentional and undesirable, you should probably put in a clause to stop it. --Undead_Knave (talk) 00:50, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Four years later, finally made some more clarifications to close UndeadKnave's proposed loophole and prevent the dragon from being reformed for one round if destroyed. - TG Cid (talk) 08:10, 3 June 2017 (MDT)